Discussion:
Who was Muhammad
(too old to reply)
Dana
2004-10-23 19:04:45 UTC
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http://unicorn.phoenixrising-web.net/shelp/muhammad.htm

The purpose of this article is not to engender hostility to Muslims, but
simply to portray Muhammad as accurately as possible based on readings of
the Koran and the Hadiths. It's important to keep in mind when reading this
that there are good, even heroic Muslims and that scriptures of other
religions have appalling statements as well.
Sometimes the best way to understand someone is to try and put oneself in
their shoes. In this article we will try and put ourselves in Muhammad's
shoes. I want you, the reader to imagine you wanted to get rich and powerful
by starting a religion. OK, that's hard to imagine but we all would like to
be rich that part's easy and if we succeed in getting many people to worship
us we can make donations to our church obligatory and start raking in the
dough. What kind of obstacles and problems would stand in your way if you
wanted to get religious followers? One is that people would think you were a
nut case, in fact many people thought that way about Muhammad. However, you
might be able to con some impressionable people into believing that you
really do have a special relationship with God. You might find some
impressionable people who don't believe in you because they already believe
in other religions. One way to persuade these people would be to tell them
that everything they believe is true but that you are a prophet with an
additional message. That was the approach taken by Muhammad. The danger is
that once you persuade them they might tell their friends about their new
religion and their friends may convince them that you are a conartist after
their money. How can you prevent that from happening? Somehow you need to
stop them from communicating with their friends. You could take the
approach Muhammad took which was to command them:
O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends.
[al-Ma'idah 5:51.11]
What if they start having doubts on their own? You could terrify them
into staying by instructing your followers:
Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him. Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)
You could also threaten them with burning in the eternal fires of hell.
Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Scalding water
shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in
their bellies. (Koran 22:19-22:23)
One way to increase your wealth and power would be to conquer the
infidels who dare not honor you as their prophet. You might instruct your
followers:
Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and
besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)
If you wanted revenge against those who refuse to accept your religion and
you were a totally ruthless and vicious sicko you might tell your followers
to torture the non-believer. You might say:
Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. And then insert him in
a chain whereof the length is seventy cubits. (Koran 69:30-37)
and
I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above
their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)
and
They should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be
cut off on opposite sides. (Koran 5:33)
The problem with encouraging your followers to attack the infidel is that
the non-believing infidel is likely to defend himself. That might deter your
followers from attacking. You could give them the incentive of sex and
booty by saying that it's fine with Allah if your followers have sex with
the captured women and keep them as slaves and that your followers can keep
whatever booty they seize.
33:50 - "Prophet, We have made lawful to you ... the slave girls whom God
has given you as booty."
4:24 - And all married women (are forbidden) unto your save those (captives)
whom your right hand possesses.
The person who participates in (Holy battles) in Allah's cause ... will be
recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) (Hadith
Sahih Bukhari, Vol 1 Book 2 Number 35)
Still the risk of death might deter some of your followers. If you were
a brilliant and evil man you might think of and carry out the following
ingenious solution to the problem. You could tell your followers that they
will go to paradise if they die fighting for the faith. You might complete
the previous sentence as follows:
The person who participates in (Holy battles) in Allah's cause ... will be
recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will
be admitted to Paradise (if he is killed in the battle as a martyr). (Hadith
Sahih Bukhari, Vol 1 Book 2 Number 35)
and remind your followers that:
"Know that paradise is under the shades of swords." Sahih al-Bukhari Vol 4
p55
So tell us what it is like to be in paradise your followers might ask.
You might say that those who enter paradise will enjoy:
"abundant fruits, unforbidden, never-ending." There will be "gushing
fountains" and everyone "shall recline on jeweled couches face to face, and
there shall wait on them immortal youths with bowls and ewers and a cup of
purest wine." Suras (or chapters) 55 and 56 of the Quran.
That might not be enough to convince your lusty male followers to risk death
in battle so you might tell them some even more thrilling aspects of
Paradise. You might tell them:
"Therein are bashful virgins whom neither man nor jinnee will have touched
before ... virgins as fair as corals and rubies," sura 55. A few lines
later, you might remind them of "virgins chaste and fair ... they shall
recline on green cushions and fine carpets."
By now you have a rapt audience of eager male listeners. How many
virgins are there for a man who dies for Allah an eager follower asks?
Why the smallest reward for every believer who is admitted to Paradise is 72
wives. The proof is in the Book of Sunan (volume IV, chapters on "The
Features of Paradise as described by the Messenger of Allah," Chapter 21:
"About the Smallest Reward for the People of Paradise," Hadith 2687). The
Tafsir of Surah Al-Rahman (55), verse 72: mentions servants as well "It was
mentioned by Daraj Ibn Abi Hatim that Abu-al-Haytham Abdullah Ibn Wahb
narrated from Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri, who heard the Prophet Muhammad saying:
'The smallest reward for the people of Paradise is an abode where there are
80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with
pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a
Damascus suburb] to Sana'a.'"
Are they really virgins a starry eyed follower asks?
The chastity of the black-eyed was not violated by man nor jinn (verse
74 of Surah Al-Rahman (55))
What if you are surrounded by all those women but can't do it. Don't
worry. TIRMZI, vol. 2 states on page 138:
A man in paradise shall be given virility equal to that of one hundred men.
Congratulations. Now you have men eager to kill and die for you. The
problem is you have to deliver on the promise of the booty and yet you want
it. So tell them that since Allah granted victory the spoils belong to him
and one fifth should go to his prophet (you) and let them have the rest
(Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52 Number 46 8:41). What if your followers want
to rape their captive women? If you want them to kill for you, it would be
wise to satisfy their sexual desires and to sanction rape so you tell them
that Allah decrees that they can rape their captives (Sahih Muslim, Book 8,
Number 3371). Congratulations, they are killing the infidel right and left
and you are getting wealthy off the booty. But wait a minute. You could be
making more money. What good do a lot of dead non-believers do for you?
Wouldn't it be better if they all paid taxes? You don't want the
non-believer killed, you want them enslaved. So you would tell your
followers:
Fight those who do not believe in Allah, ... until they pay the tax in
acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection. [Koran
9.29]
As you became rich other people might get the idea to declare that they
are prophets too. They might even copy your tactics and threaten those who
don't believe in them with hell. If such tactics worked for you it might
work for them too. Then there'll be less money for you. Their followers
might even become a threat to you. Not a problem. Just declare that you
are the last prophet.
In My Ummah (Islamic Nation), there shall be born Thirty Grand Liars
(Dajjals), each of whom will claim to be a prophet, But I am the Last
Prophet; there is No Prophet after Me. (Abu Dawood Vol 2 p. 228; Tirmidhi
Vol 2 p.45)" [1]
Once you declare yourself the last prophet you can accuse anyone who
declares himself a prophet after you of being a heretic and you or your
followers can have him eliminated. This was the fate of a Persian, Siyyid
'Ali-Muhammad who announced in May 23, 1844, that he had a mission to herald
the arrival of "One greater than Himself". This announcement was the birth
of the Bahai religion. Siyyid said:
I am one of the sustaining pillars of the Primal Word of God. Whosoever hath
recognized Me, hath known all that is true and right, and hath attained all
that is good and seemly; and whosoever hath failed to recognize Me, hath
turned away from all that is true and right and hath succumbed to everything
evil and unseemly...all those who cherish My love and follow My behest
abiding within the mansions of Paradise, and the entire company of Mine
adversaries consigned to the lowest depths of hell-fire.
Although Muhammad was dead by 1844 his followers were not. Since
Muhammad had said that he was the last prophet, Siyyid was considered a
heretic by Moslems and killed and his followers persecuted.
Now you're rich and powerful. But you still have a problem. You have to
pretend that you are good. You can't do all those deliciously immoral acts
that you want to do. Lets say you want to engage in immoral sexual
behavior. People might not approve and question your saintliness. Not a
problem. You can say that God commanded you to do it. Lets say you saw a
hot babe and want to add her to your burgeoning collection of wives and you
already have more than four wives and you told your followers that they can
just have four wives. You can say that God allows as many infidel slave sex
partners as you want. What if your infidel wife has the bright idea to
convert to Islam so that you can't have her and your four wives. Make
Islamic law say that a slave who converts to Islam is still a slave! What
if the girl you are lusting after is Muslim and is not a slave. Just say
that you got a special dispensation from God granted through the archangel
Gabriel and go for it! Let say you want to marry into a powerful family but
the only girl available is only 9 years old. That won't look good to your
followers. So you explain to them that God wanted you to have sex with the
child of your desires:
"...the Prophet said to her (Aisha), 'You have been shown to me twice in my
dream. I saw you pictured on a piece of silk and someone said (to me). 'This
is your wife.' When I uncovered the picture, I saw that it was yours. I
said, 'If this is from Allah, it will be done.'"
(Hadith, Sahih Bukhari 5:58:235)
Lets say a couple of your soldiers managed to take as booty some very
beautiful women and you want them. You could command your soldier to give
her to you but he might get very upset and soldiers tend to be dangerous.
Since you are rich you could pay him a lot of money for her and that might
get him a little less angry. This is what Mohammed did after he heard that
a soldier called Dahia had obtained a jewish woman of "incomparable beauty"
by the name of Safiya bint Huyay after participating in an attack against
her Jewish brethren. He sent for Dahiya, paid him Safiya's price and
married her. (Ibn Saad, al-Tabaqat, pp. 120-123).
Rayhana Bint Zayd was another Jewish woman, whom Mohammed captured after
her tribe was totally butchered. She was known to be a woman of immense
beauty. Mohammed kept her as a concubine.
Lets say your son Zayad has married an incredibly beautiful wife by the
name of Zainab who is ravishing and you want her. Not a problem. Command
him to annul the marriage.
(Sura 33:37) Then when Zayad had dissolved his marriage with her (Zainab) we
joined her in marriage to thee: in order that there may be no difficulty to
the believers in the matter of marriage of the wives of their adopted
sons....
Muhammad's use of religion to justify his exploitation of women to satisfy
his sexual desires has led to Islamic sexual exploitation of women
throughout history. His use of sex and divine revelations into manipulating
his followers into going to war against the infidel has led to a history of
bloody wars against the non-believers and murder of non-believers that
continues to this day.
The sinister use of sex to motivate murder is a factor in suicide
bombings. Death announcements of suicide bombers in the Palestinian Press,
often takes the form of a wedding not funeral announcements. Serge
Trifkovic in his book The Sword of the Prophet give the following examples:
With great pride, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad marrieds the member of its
military wing ... the martyr and hero Yasser Al-Adhami, to the black-eyed."
(Al Istiqlal, October 4, 2001)
Sa'id Al-Hutari, who exploded himself and 23 Israeli teenagers at a Tel Aviv
disco on June 1, 2001, wrote in his will: "Call out in joy, oh my mother,
distribute sweets, oh my father and brothers; a wedding with 'the
black-eyed' awaits your son in Paradise." (Al Risala, July 7, 2001)
The terror guide to the hijackers who crashed planeloads of innocent people
into the World Trade Center said:
It will be the day, God willing, you spend with the women of paradise...Know
that the gardens of paradise are waiting for you in all their beauty, and
the women of paradise are waiting, calling out, "Come hither, friend of
God."


The Reverend Jerry Falwell said that Muhammad was a terrorist. He was
condemned by the National Council of Churches among other organizations. Ali
Sina wrote an article defending Falwell called Is Falwell to be Blamed for
Calling Muhammad a Terrorist?
Here is one paragraph from that essay:
What Falwell said was not factually untrue. Muhammad did things that by
today's standard would be seen as acts of terrorism. He raided towns without
any previous warning, killed unarmed men who had gone to the fields and
markets after their daily business, captured their wives and children and
distributed the younger women among his soldiers while always keeping the
prettiest ones for himself and having sex with them in the same day he
murdered their fathers, husbands and loved ones. These are not fables but
historic facts recorded and preserved by Muslims themselves.
The Koran describes Muhammad's massacre of the Jews
http://main.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/jews.htm which leads modern
Moslems to think such behavior is a good thing. After the battle all 700
men left in the tribe were slaughtered in one day the unfortunates being
forced to dig their own graves before their heads were struck off. The women
were enslaved. Muslims always prized females not only because they could
be used to do domestic work, but also because they could used to used to
satisfy their carnal appetites of their owners and also be used as breeding
stock to breed more slaves. Islamic enslavement of the non-believer
continues today in the Sudan. In fact Islamic genocide against the
non-believer is occurring in the Sudan.
What Muhammad did hundreds of years ago radical Muslims are doing today.
Suicide bombers and holy war jihadists in search of paradise open the gates
of hell on earth with the flaming explosions they create and in the process
destroy the paradises that existed on earth. Islam has turned the Paradise
of Kashmir into a terrorist hell. A terrorist bomb has ended tourism in the
paradise of Bali for the forseeable future. Muslims are committing genocide
in the Sudan. Islam has caused endless wars in the Middle East and
throughout the world. 95% of the conflicts in the world as of 2001 involved
Muslims. One of the greatest threats to the world today (other than Iraq and
North Korea) is that of Islamic fanatics getting hold of weapons of mass
destruction. These fanatic Muslims have no fear of the consequences of
setting off such weapons as they believe that Allah will grant them victory
or at the worst will bring them to paradise.
Apologists for Islam have made arguments that Islam is a tolerant
peaceful religion. Their arguments are addressed on the Islam and Jihad web
page of this web site. I have received some responses arguing with my thesis
that Muhammad's goal was wealth and power. Those responses are addressed at
http://www.primechoice.com/philosophy/shelp/noblemuhammad.htm. For a book
that goes further in depth about who Muhammad was I recommend The Sword of
the Prophet: The Politically Incorrect Guide To Islam. Paul Eidelberg wrote
a review of The Sword of the Prophet. I give an excerpt of the review
below:
In her extraordinary work, Islam and Dhimmitude: Where Civilizations
Collide, Bat Ye'or avoids discussing Islam per se. She lets Islam's
thirteen-century record of plunder, rape, and genocide discredit that
religion. One would hardly know of such barbarism reading the doyan of
Islamic scholars, Bernard Lewis. Judging from his book What Went Wrong?
(2002), nothing is intrinsically wrong with the religion that enthralls 1.2
billion people. And Lewis, unlike John Esposito, is not known as an
apologist of Islam.
Enter Serge Trifkovic, a man of extraordinary intellectual courage. His The
Sword of the Prophet departs from the moral "neutrality" of academia and, in
six lucid and well-documented chapters, provides a "Politically Incorrect
Guide to Islam."..

Chapter 1, "Muhammad," portrays a simple preacher who became a fanatical
warlord in the process of conquering Mecca and Medina. After slaughtering
Arab tribesmen and looting their camels, the prophet and his followers
kidnapped their women and staged an orgy of rape. One Hadith explains:

We desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, but at
the same time we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual
intercourse with them but by observing 'azl [coitus interruptus]. But we
said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not
ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger . and he said: It does not matter if
you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of
Resurrection will be born.
To the men of one Jewish tribe, Muhammad offered the choice of conversion to
Islam or death. Upon their refusal, up to 900 were decapitated in front of
their women and children. "Truly the judgment of Allah was pronounced on
high," was Muhammad's comment. The women were subsequently raped.
Ibn Warraq in his book The Quest For the Historical Muhammad presents
evidence that, many of the sayings attributed to Mohammad in the Koran and
the Hadiths were not made by him. If Ibn Warraq is right and much of the
Koran and Hadiths were the result of creative writing and not historical
reality then the creators of Islam must have had the motives ascribed above
to Muhammad of achieving wealth, power and beautiful women.
I posted the above essay to a forum and got the following responses:




The X-RATED PARADISE OF ISLAM
==============================
Prophet Muhammed was a genius. He thought up the unique institution of
Jihad, where men would gladly volunteer to go to wars & die in wars for no
pay other than war booty & slaves. That wasn't it! If they died or were
willing to sacrice themselves in battle then Heaven/Jannat would be
instantly theirs. The martyr's Heaven was laden with things rare in the
desert of Arabia: beautiful virgins, young boys, water, wine, fruits and
wealth. Jannat laden with virgins, boys, wealth, etc. is the lure for the
Jihadi willing to do battle, let's say in Kashmir, Afghanistan. This is no
secret - ask any muslim; ask Fah here at the forum. Please check out the
following verses from the Koran and quotes from the Hadiths.
VIRGINS (HOURIS)
================
Prophet Muhammed knew that sex would sell very well among the group of his
lecherous followers who were motivated to fight battles by the promise of
sex slaves and booty. Once the followers go to heaven, they can conveniently
ditch their wives for the fresher and more pleasurable sexual encounters
with 'Houris' (beautiful virgins). Not only that, the poor wives who gave up
their virginity for the pleasure of their husbands do not get even one Male
Sex Bomb. But wait, Allah is all merciful! He gives the wives the rare
honour of watching their husbands deflower those 72 Houris (virgins) and 28
young pre-pubescent boys.
The relevant verses from the Koran are:
Koran 78:31 As for the righteous, they shall surely triumph. Theirs shall be
gardens and vineyards, and high- bosomed virgins for companions: a truly
overflowing cup.
Koran 37:40-48 ...They will sit with bashful, dark-eyed virgins, as chaste
as the sheltered eggs of ostriches.
Koran 44:51-55 ...Yes and We shall wed them to dark-eyed houris. (beautiful
virgins)
Koran 52:17-20 ...They shall recline on couches ranged in rows. To dark-eyed
houris (virgins) we shall wed them...
Koran 55:56-57 In them will be bashful virgins neither man nor Jinn will
have touched before.Then which of the favours of your Lord will you deny ?"
Koran 55:57-58 Virgins as fair as corals and rubies. Then which of the
favours of your Lord will you deny ?"
Koran 56:7-40 ...We created the houris (the beautiful women) and made them
virgins, loving companions for those on the right hand.. "
Koran 55:70-77 "In each there shall be virgins chaste and fair... Dark eyed
virgins sheltered in their tents whom neither man nor Jin will have touched
before.. In the Hadiths, Prophet Muhammed goes one step further - Women and
young boys are on display as if in a fruit market where you can choose the
desired ripeness.
Quote from Hadiths
==================
Al Hadis, Vol. 4, p. 172, No. 34 Ali reported that the Apostle of Allah
said, "There is in Paradise a market wherein there will be no buying or sell
ing, but will consist of men and women. When a man desires a beauty, he will
have intercourse with them."
YOUNG BOYS
==========
Homosexuality was and is widely practised in Islamic countries. To please
the homosexuals among his followers he promised them pre-pubescent boys in
Paradise. So after committing plunder, loot, rape and murder in this life,
the followers of Islam get "rewarded" by untouched virginal youths who are
fresh like pearls.
The relevant verses from the Koran are:
Koran 52:24 Round about them will serve, to them, boys (handsome) as pearls
well-guarded.
Koran 56:17 Round about them will serve boys of perpetual freshness.
Koran 76:19 And round about them will serve boys of perpetual freshness: if
thou seest them, thou wouldst think them scattered pearls.
Name: maka
E-Mail: ***@yahoo.com




FCarl Ericsonn hope you mother gets blown up next time with your children
burning next to her in hell MOTHER F. Your Washington will only last so
long. Our people how ever poor they are will get you. Salman thinks he is
free, what we will do to him soon will exceed his worse nighmares. Forget
about the prophet (PBUH) and what you think he is capable of you think about
the people ready to defend the truth about him. If you were in front of me
i'd kill you just like Osama did to your beloved trade center may he be
rewarded for his bravery if it was in the name of Allah. Make your last
wishes soon Qiyamat is upon you dont forget to convert!! And as for your
dirty murdering president he kills not in the name of God but in the name of
America the dirtiest pot of Homo's child abusers and crooks on the planet
and you people have the nerve to insult the Prophet Peace be upon him. I am
not a warrior or follow Osama like a God, stop playing with a time bomb, it
might just explode again. Take it easy Mother F's
Name: D.Sawant
E-Mail: ***@hotmail.com



Authors note: Although Maka's interpretation may be correct regarding the
Islamic promise to homosexual followers, there are verses in Islam that
condemn homosexuality. For example:
"We also sent Lut : He said to his people : "Do ye commit lewdness such as
no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practice your
lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing
beyond bounds." Qur'an 7:80-81
According to the Hadiths
"When a man mounts another man, the throne of God shakes."
"Kill the one that is doing it and also kill the one that it is being done
to." (in reference to the active and passive partners in gay sexual
intercourse)
There is at least one mention of lesbian behavior mentioned in the Hadith:
"Sihaq (lesbian sexual activity) of women is zina (illegitimate sexual
intercourse) among them."
Al-Fatiha, a foundation whose the mission is to help Lesbian and Gay
Muslims in reconciling their sexual orientation/gender identity with the
religion of Islam, estimates that 4,000 homosexuals have been executed in
Iran since their revolution in 1979. 10 public executions of homosexuals
have been performed in Afghanistan by the Taliban army.
So how do we explain the verses of the Koran quoted by Maka? Either his
interpretation of the quotes are correct and they are examples of
contradictions in Islamic texts or the verses are promising servants and not
homosexual companions.
•R.L.Measures
2004-10-23 21:25:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dana
http://unicorn.phoenixrising-web.net/shelp/muhammad.htm
The purpose of this article is not to engender hostility to Muslims, but
simply to portray Muhammad as accurately as possible based on readings of
the Koran and the Hadiths. It's important to keep in mind when reading this
that there are good, even heroic Muslims and that scriptures of other
religions have appalling statements as well.
...
** nice essay. Congrats, Dana. What the hell kind of a person would
want 80,000 servants or more than one wife?
--
€ R.L.Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
remove _ from e-mail adr
Dana
2004-10-23 21:28:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by •R.L.Measures
Post by Dana
http://unicorn.phoenixrising-web.net/shelp/muhammad.htm
The purpose of this article is not to engender hostility to Muslims, but
simply to portray Muhammad as accurately as possible based on readings of
the Koran and the Hadiths. It's important to keep in mind when reading this
that there are good, even heroic Muslims and that scriptures of other
religions have appalling statements as well.
...
** nice essay. Congrats, Dana. What the hell kind of a person would
want 80,000 servants or more than one wife?
The web page where I found that Essay has some very interesting links.
The reason for posting the essay is because of my dismay that no one in Iraq
besides the more violent ones are stepping up to help direct their country.
I was kind of expecting that after we knocked Saddam out of the way, the
Iraqi people would see they are free of being held prisoner and are free to
come out and make a government of the people for the people.
This made me look deeper into their culture, and where I found that Islam is
all about submission to other people based on misguided beliefs. Look at how
the Iranians allow the Mullas to be tryannts, or how the people of Saudi
Arabia allow women to be treated as property. The religion of Islam has kept
the people in such a state as freedom and liberty is unknown to the masses.
The people of Moslem countries do not realize that each and everyone of us
is an individual and that we all have certain rights that should be never
infringed upon. But these poor souls are brainwashed into believing what
their petty dictators want them to believe through the religion of Islam.
Post by •R.L.Measures
--
? R.L.Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
remove _ from e-mail adr
•R.L.Measures
2004-10-24 02:47:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dana
Post by •R.L.Measures
Post by Dana
http://unicorn.phoenixrising-web.net/shelp/muhammad.htm
The purpose of this article is not to engender hostility to Muslims, but
simply to portray Muhammad as accurately as possible based on readings of
the Koran and the Hadiths. It's important to keep in mind when reading
this
Post by •R.L.Measures
Post by Dana
that there are good, even heroic Muslims and that scriptures of other
religions have appalling statements as well.
...
** nice essay. Congrats, Dana. What the hell kind of a person would
want 80,000 servants or more than one wife?
The web page where I found that Essay has some very interesting links.
The reason for posting the essay is because of my dismay that no one in Iraq
besides the more violent ones are stepping up to help direct their country.
I was kind of expecting that after we knocked Saddam out of the way, the
Iraqi people would see they are free of being held prisoner and are free to
come out and make a government of the people for the people.
This made me look deeper into their culture, and where I found that Islam is
all about submission to other people based on misguided beliefs.
** Islam is simply not compatible with democracy.
Post by Dana
Look at how
the Iranians allow the Mullas to be tryannts,
** As I understand it, the Iranians are fed up with their theocracy.
Post by Dana
or how the people of Saudi
Arabia allow women to be treated as property. The religion of Islam has kept
the people in such a state as freedom and liberty is unknown to the masses.
The people of Moslem countries do not realize that each and everyone of us
is an individual and that we all have certain rights that should be never
infringed upon. But these poor souls are brainwashed into believing what
their petty dictators want them to believe through the religion of Islam.
** Let us not forget that the Romsn church used to support dictators.
--
€ R.L.Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
remove _ from e-mail adr
Dana
2004-10-24 03:13:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by •R.L.Measures
Post by Dana
Post by •R.L.Measures
Post by Dana
http://unicorn.phoenixrising-web.net/shelp/muhammad.htm
The purpose of this article is not to engender hostility to Muslims, but
simply to portray Muhammad as accurately as possible based on readings of
the Koran and the Hadiths. It's important to keep in mind when reading
this
Post by •R.L.Measures
Post by Dana
that there are good, even heroic Muslims and that scriptures of other
religions have appalling statements as well.
...
** nice essay. Congrats, Dana. What the hell kind of a person would
want 80,000 servants or more than one wife?
The web page where I found that Essay has some very interesting links.
The reason for posting the essay is because of my dismay that no one in Iraq
besides the more violent ones are stepping up to help direct their country.
I was kind of expecting that after we knocked Saddam out of the way, the
Iraqi people would see they are free of being held prisoner and are free to
come out and make a government of the people for the people.
This made me look deeper into their culture, and where I found that Islam is
all about submission to other people based on misguided beliefs.
** Islam is simply not compatible with democracy.
I must agree with this statement.
Post by •R.L.Measures
Post by Dana
Look at how
the Iranians allow the Mullas to be tryannts,
** As I understand it, the Iranians are fed up with their theocracy.
Among the younger crowd yes. I hope the younger people in Iran can try to
bring a more moderate form of government to power.
Post by •R.L.Measures
Post by Dana
or how the people of Saudi
Arabia allow women to be treated as property. The religion of Islam has kept
the people in such a state as freedom and liberty is unknown to the masses.
The people of Moslem countries do not realize that each and everyone of us
is an individual and that we all have certain rights that should be never
infringed upon. But these poor souls are brainwashed into believing what
their petty dictators want them to believe through the religion of Islam.
** Let us not forget that the Romsn church used to support dictators.
--
? R.L.Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
remove _ from e-mail adr
•R.L.Measures
2004-10-24 10:41:12 UTC
Permalink
"Dana"
Post by •R.L.Measures
Post by Dana
Post by •R.L.Measures
Post by Dana
http://unicorn.phoenixrising-web.net/shelp/muhammad.htm
The purpose of this article is not to engender hostility to Muslims,
but
Post by •R.L.Measures
Post by Dana
Post by •R.L.Measures
Post by Dana
simply to portray Muhammad as accurately as possible based on readings
of
Post by •R.L.Measures
Post by Dana
Post by •R.L.Measures
Post by Dana
the Koran and the Hadiths. It's important to keep in mind when
reading
Post by •R.L.Measures
Post by Dana
this
Post by •R.L.Measures
Post by Dana
that there are good, even heroic Muslims and that scriptures of other
religions have appalling statements as well.
...
** nice essay. Congrats, Dana. What the hell kind of a person would
want 80,000 servants or more than one wife?
The web page where I found that Essay has some very interesting links.
The reason for posting the essay is because of my dismay that no one in
Iraq
Post by •R.L.Measures
Post by Dana
besides the more violent ones are stepping up to help direct their
country.
Post by •R.L.Measures
Post by Dana
I was kind of expecting that after we knocked Saddam out of the way, the
Iraqi people would see they are free of being held prisoner and are free
to
Post by •R.L.Measures
Post by Dana
come out and make a government of the people for the people.
This made me look deeper into their culture, and where I found that Islam
is
Post by •R.L.Measures
Post by Dana
all about submission to other people based on misguided beliefs.
** Islam is simply not compatible with democracy.
I must agree with this statement.
Post by •R.L.Measures
Post by Dana
Look at how
the Iranians allow the Mullas to be tryannts,
** As I understand it, the Iranians are fed up with their theocracy.
Among the younger crowd yes. I hope the younger people in Iran can try to
bring a more moderate form of government to power.
** The priestcrafters who hold power now are unlikely to relinquish it
without bloodshed.
Post by •R.L.Measures
Post by Dana
...
--
€ R.L.Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org
remove _ from e-mail adr
Ya'kub T
2004-10-25 18:49:57 UTC
Permalink
A poster using the name "Dana" is forging moderation approvals on
obscene and abusive posts. These posts were not approved by the
moderators of soc.religion.islam. If you look at the headers,
you will notice that the posts have Approved: lines with an
address other than sri-***@hrweb.org, and lack PGP Moose
signatures. In addition, they were not posted from the normal
moderation server at stump.algebra.com.

PGP Moose should be cancelling these posts, and i believe is doing
so (although I've checked with the administrator about that).
Unfortunately, many Usenet servers no longer accept any third-party
cancellations of articles, even authorized cancellations on moderated
newsgroups. :/

I've sent a complaint/inquiry to the administrator of the news
server used by the forger. Hopefully he'll close the forger's
account quickly. Meanwhile, I suggest that you killfile this
individual's posts.

In order to prevent this individual from starting flamewars on
soc.religion.islam, any posts responding to him/her/it on the
newsgroup will be filtered out. Since the poster used an
obviously forged email address in the From: line, email responses
will bounce, as well. I suggest that you not waste your time
responding to these posts. :)

Thank you!



--
Catherine Hampton <***@devsite.org>
Interim Moderator, soc.religion.islam
Ya'kub T
2004-10-25 18:49:29 UTC
Permalink
A poster using the name "Dana" is forging moderation approvals on
obscene and abusive posts. These posts were not approved by the
moderators of soc.religion.islam. If you look at the headers,
you will notice that the posts have Approved: lines with an
address other than sri-***@hrweb.org, and lack PGP Moose
signatures. In addition, they were not posted from the normal
moderation server at stump.algebra.com.

PGP Moose should be cancelling these posts, and i believe is doing
so (although I've checked with the administrator about that).
Unfortunately, many Usenet servers no longer accept any third-party
cancellations of articles, even authorized cancellations on moderated
newsgroups. :/

I've sent a complaint/inquiry to the administrator of the news
server used by the forger. Hopefully he'll close the forger's
account quickly. Meanwhile, I suggest that you killfile this
individual's posts.

In order to prevent this individual from starting flamewars on
soc.religion.islam, any posts responding to him/her/it on the
newsgroup will be filtered out. Since the poster used an
obviously forged email address in the From: line, email responses
will bounce, as well. I suggest that you not waste your time
responding to these posts. :)

Thank you!



--
Catherine Hampton <***@devsite.org>
Interim Moderator, soc.religion.islam
Ya'kub T
2004-10-25 18:49:04 UTC
Permalink
A poster using the name "Dana" is forging moderation approvals on
obscene and abusive posts. These posts were not approved by the
moderators of soc.religion.islam. If you look at the headers,
you will notice that the posts have Approved: lines with an
address other than sri-***@hrweb.org, and lack PGP Moose
signatures. In addition, they were not posted from the normal
moderation server at stump.algebra.com.

PGP Moose should be cancelling these posts, and i believe is doing
so (although I've checked with the administrator about that).
Unfortunately, many Usenet servers no longer accept any third-party
cancellations of articles, even authorized cancellations on moderated
newsgroups. :/

I've sent a complaint/inquiry to the administrator of the news
server used by the forger. Hopefully he'll close the forger's
account quickly. Meanwhile, I suggest that you killfile this
individual's posts.

In order to prevent this individual from starting flamewars on
soc.religion.islam, any posts responding to him/her/it on the
newsgroup will be filtered out. Since the poster used an
obviously forged email address in the From: line, email responses
will bounce, as well. I suggest that you not waste your time
responding to these posts. :)

Thank you!



--
Catherine Hampton <***@devsite.org>
Interim Moderator, soc.religion.islam
Harry
2004-10-25 21:11:18 UTC
Permalink
GO DANA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




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checkthetruth
2004-10-27 13:11:04 UTC
Permalink
It is emphasized that Islamic reading must be done from an Arabic
Quran in order to understand its true meaning!
BUT
your Arabic Quran has not even 1 Arabic prophet to authenticate the
truth of the Arabic Quran. Even your Arabic Last Messenger turned out
to be a Hebrew, descendant of Ishmael, a Hebrew because he was the son
of Abraham, a Hebrew- the Father of all Hebrews!

Your prophet Mohammed was not an Arab; for the Father of all Arabs was
Kahtan or Joktan in English. Conclusively, it can be said of the
Arabic Quran is proven false!

Hence how then can the Arabic Quran be truly said to give its true
meaning when it is read from Arabic Quran when it has not even 1
Arabic prophet at all ???

Only the bible gives its true meaning; for the bible is written by
God, Himself as the author and thus in every book of the bible, no
writer signed off himself or herself as author. And the Last
Messenger, Jesus Christ was a Jew and came to bring to all the New
Covenant to be enacted into the Jewish bible:Tanakh to be the Bible
for all. Thus, the Bible is deduced as truth; for the Bible (Jewish)
has Jewish prophet, Jesus Christ to authenticate the truth of the
Bible for all!

A wise man would first check a holy book like you would check history
book to see if it is written by a historian before buying it to read,
but if it is not, then you read not; for if you do, you would only be
reading foolishness and weirdness ending up as an INFIDEL!

Therefore, be wise to check a holy book by its author(prophet/God)
whether it is written by its own prophet or his/her own God.

Conclusively, the BIBLE is true for it is written by God (Jesus as its
prophet-The Last Messenger of God)for its own people - the Christians.

May God bless your eyes to perceive the truth of God. Amen.
Post by Ya'kub T
A poster using the name "Dana" is forging moderation approvals on
obscene and abusive posts. These posts were not approved by the
moderators of soc.religion.islam. If you look at the headers,
you will notice that the posts have Approved: lines with an
signatures. In addition, they were not posted from the normal
moderation server at stump.algebra.com.
PGP Moose should be cancelling these posts, and i believe is doing
so (although I've checked with the administrator about that).
Unfortunately, many Usenet servers no longer accept any third-party
cancellations of articles, even authorized cancellations on moderated
newsgroups. :/
I've sent a complaint/inquiry to the administrator of the news
server used by the forger. Hopefully he'll close the forger's
account quickly. Meanwhile, I suggest that you killfile this
individual's posts.
In order to prevent this individual from starting flamewars on
soc.religion.islam, any posts responding to him/her/it on the
newsgroup will be filtered out. Since the poster used an
obviously forged email address in the From: line, email responses
will bounce, as well. I suggest that you not waste your time
responding to these posts. :)
Thank you!
Pete Hwr
2004-12-31 17:55:55 UTC
Permalink
Dear Sir,

It is quite perceptive of you to note the techniques "Dana has used to
slip in her postings. However, I am puzzled at why you call her postings
"obscene."

"Obscene" usually means something so morally objectionalbe that it
should not be read. But her postings contain generaly true information.
The Koran really does call for killing non-Muslims. Actually the Koran
calls for fighting infidels 109 times, I counted them all. Sometimes it
says cut their hands off, sometimes it says decapitate them, sometimes it
says slay them, but you get the idea.)

The Arabs really do have a tradition of killing women family members who
have "dishonored" the family name. Of course it is wrong to blame Muhammad
for this particular evil. He did not invent honor killing. But for Muslims
to deny the exisetence of problem is irrational and delusional.
Finally I must ask you why do you follow the teachings of a man who
behaved in an imoral manner? Muhammad and his men kidnapped and raped
innumerable women. Do you think that is moral? Was that worthy of
immitation?
Muhammad even ordered the murders of nine diferent people who dared to
mock him in public. Was that moral? Was that worthy of immitation?

Sir, why do you follow a man who said that the sun rests every night in a
muddy swamp? (See Koran 30;38 and 18;84)

The four Gospels of Jesus are free from any scientific error. Jesus
never made any mistaken statements about science or cosmology.
Most important of all, the Gospels are MORALLY superior to thte Koran.
For example, the Gospels tell us to turn our cheek to insult. The Gospels
never tell us to kill anybody. (Unlike the violent Koran)
So which book do you think really came from the one true God? Save your
soul...Read the Gospels. Start with Luke and then read John. That may be
all you need to save your soul.
Sincerely,
Kevin A.
Post by Ya'kub T
individual's posts.
In order to prevent this individual from starting flamewars on
soc.religion.islam, any posts responding to him/her/it on the
newsgroup will be filtered out. Since the poster used an
obviously forged email address in the From: line, email responses
will bounce, as well. I suggest that you not waste your time
responding to these posts. :)
Thank you!
--
Interim Moderator, soc.religion.islam
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